http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/microhydro/message/10877?l=1
Re: SPOONS AND TURBINES--proof of illegality?
--- In microhydro@yahoogroups.com, Otto Rike (Ron Davis) wrote:
>
> Dr. Hartvigsen,
>
> Can you prove to the group that my Turbine runners are illegal?
>
> Ron Davis
Ron,
Your question is easy. Yes! There are only two parts to the proof.
1. Did you copy the spoons?
2. Do you own the copyright?
The answers are yes, you copied the spoons, and no you do not own
the copyright, nor do you have permission from the copyright owner
to make copies. Therefore your copies are illegal. At this time it
is owned by Cargo & Kraft AB of Sweden.
Below is an email exchange from seven years ago between you and
Peter (Cargo & Kraft) where you admit to copying the spoons and
Peter has objected to your copying activities.
Following that are two emails I've sent you in response to similar
demands to this posting outlining the facts surrounding both #1 and
#2.
There is absolutely nothing new here. You admit that your product is
a copy of the parts which design is owned by Peter. He has not ever
agreed to allow you to copy these parts. You have the links to the
law. What part of this don't you understand? The second email below
has a quiz in which I've invited you to identify which aspect you do
not understand. The invitation still stands.
Joe
Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 07:29:45 -0400
To: Peter Ruyter
From: Ron & Diane
Subject: Re: turbinetest
Peter,
We had some sort misunderstanding. Did you not realize Joseph was
selling the spoons one at a time? I bought four.And in my
communications I ALWAYS told people where I got them and
recommended them. As you could see, I was promoting your product!
Check out my e-mails.
As to the product itself--you were selling a product on which you
self- admittedly had no data. Do you have data now? Have you tested
your own product?
We just didn't understand what the problem was. You didn't write to
clear things up after Diane wrote to you.
I was pretty upset. I really don't like being accused of wrongdoing!
I don't think Joseph thought he was doing anything wrong either, or
he wouldn't have been selling the spoons in partial sets.
I was very clear to him that I was going to use them to make bronze
spoons.
I'm sure he must have told you.
So lets clear this matter up so we can work together. O.K?
Ron-----P.S. I couldn't read your attachment. It just came up code.
At 23:21 00/09/12 +0200, you wrote:
Evening Ron and Diane.
I am a little bit sad, because you not answering my mails.
And when I understand you are using my work and make copies of our
products. Its very sad, and its a backslash for whole area of intrest
for spending time, love and money for developing good working hydro
products with small economical frames.
I look for a good explanation and I hope to come in mode for spending
more power to develop better things and more power to poor peoples.
Peter
----------
From my email to you on Wednesday, November 8, 2006 (note that 75
years is incorrect, it is only 70 years)
With regards to proof of your copyright violation, you have admitted
that you made copies using the plastic original to make a wax mold
for the castings you make and show on your web site. The web page I
gave you on copyright of an "original expression fixed in a tangible
medium", i.e. a tangible artifact, states that the copyright is in
effect without filing for the life of the creator plus 75 years.
Let's follow the logic here.
1. The spoons exist, therefore someone created them and they are
automatically copyright.
2. You copied them, thereby violating the copyright.
3. I received the spoons from two sources, directly from Peter Ruyter
and directly from Ingella Carlsson at the request of Peter Ruyter.
4. I have been told that Ingella's late husband was their creator,
and that he has been dead 10-15 years. Therefore, there is at least
60 years of copyright protection remaining.
5. My source for the spoons requested that I collect $2/copy of the spoons.
6. I passed that request on to you.
7. There are no other sources of the spoons, nor any other claims as
creator or copyright holder, therefore one can safely assume that this
claim is valid.
In the future please send all payments directly to Peter. If you feel
it would be more appropriate to send payment to Ingella I'm sure he
would prefer that over the current situation. Work out the details of
payment with Peter and I'm sure the needed update of the record could
be made on the microhydro group. His contact information is found at
http://www.microhydro.com/english.html
------------
From my email to you Saturday, June 2, 2007
Ron,
Given the subject lines of your last two emails,
"Dr. Hartvigsen---more than your word as a Mormon-PUBLIC QUESTION!"
and,
"I guess that means the answer is NO!"
I can only assume that you are having difficulty grasping the simple
concepts that I've outlined in great detail for you.
So, here is a true or false quiz for you. I'll give you a hint, all
the answers are true, but if you still have some trouble with it
please tell me which question you have difficulty in answering true.
Then I will be happy to address that question in further detail.
Q1 The blue and orange turgo spoons exist.
Q2 These turgo spoons were created by someone.
Q3 These turgo spoons were not created by Ron or Joe.
Q4 These turgo spoons were created by someone who is either alive or
has been dead for less than 70 years (hint - injection molded glass
filled nylon is less than 50 years old).
Q5 US and International copyright law automatically covers the spoon
design without filing any paperwork, for the lifetime of the creator,
and prohibits unauthorized copies, with provisions for civil and
criminal penalties for violations. (Hint, review the URLs I provided
to copyright.gov for complete details)
Q6 Joseph Hartvigsen was supplied turgo spoons from the copyright
owner (the creator's estate or later the purchaser from the creator's
estate)
Q7 Joseph Hartvigsen sold Ron Davis turgo spoons and paid the entire
sales price to his spoon supplier (i.e. at no profit).
Q8 Ron Davis made un-authorized replicas of the orange turgo spoon.
Q9 Joseph Hartvigsen reported this activity to the spoon supplier.
Q10 The spoon supplier requested that Ron pay $2/copy to the legal copyright
holder.
Q11 Ron refused to comply with this request.
Need I go any further? Again, tell me which question you can't
clearly answer true? What is the obvious conclusion?
Joe
