Flag this messageRe: Fwd: Re: Re: Impersonating an LDS BishopMonday, September 25, 2006 2:50 PM
From: This sender is DomainKeys verified "Joseph Hartvigsen"
Ron has forwarded your comments to me. I don't know how you know Ron,
perhaps he has just emailed with some sensational claims as he has last
week to a deseret news reporter. Anyway contrary to his claims I did
not ask that this be brought to my bishop, rather Ron insisted, and as
I had nothing to hide I agreed. The Robert Rees in question is Bishop
of the Highlands Ward, Kaysville UT Haight Creek stake, and is an
employee (attorney with the legislature) of the State of Utah (hence a
utah.gov email adress). Anyone familiar with the church can easily
verify this. Think about it, why would I use an official government
address to fake a response from a church leader? Ron accuses me of
faking the email and impersonating someone else, which I have not done,
while he has on at least two occasions posted "questions" about me
using bogus contrived identities.
The supposed misdeeds in question center on his lack of understanding
of intelectual property laws.
1. He asked me to have my employer evaluate an invention of his which
we did at considerable expense to the company. In the process we made
some improvements. The company's owner offered to bear the cost to
patent and market the invention in exchange for a generous royalty (~4x
what we get when we license our technology to someone else). What threw
Ron was that the owner detailed that the patent would include our
improvements, and hence would list Ron as primary inventors and those
who added as co-inventors. Patent law requires all inventors be (an
inventor being based on the originator of material covered in any
patent claim, hence if other people made improvements or additions
which require additional caims they are co-inventors) listed or the
patent can be invalidated.
He sees this as an attempt to steal his invention, when it only
strengthens it. Due to his irrational response, the company dropped it
and told him to do what he wanted to do with it alone. We lost money,
he still has what he had to start with. The company has not and will
not ever do anything more with the idea.
2. I sold Ron a water turbine blade that I received from a fellow in
Sweden. Ron copied it. He didn't just copying the idea, he used the
part to form a mold to make identical replicas. The fellow (now a
business partner) in Sweden requested that I collect from Ron a $2/part
royalty. Ron doesn't think we have the right to do so. We dropped the
issue 5-6 years ago but he brought it up in public a few months back so
we addressed it. It is true that there is no patent, so the general
idea is not protected. The actual part (as "an original expression
fixed in a tangible medium") is protected without filing under US
copyright laws for the life of the creator + 75 years. The creator died
some 10 years ago, and his widow sold the rights to my partner in
Sweden. Tracing the rights is as simple as following the parts. The
person who is now the only source in the world of these parts is also
the one controlling the copyright. Ron claims it is fraudulent to
request a royalty.
So Ron will vigorously defend his IP (against a proposed cooperative
venture for an improved product) while trampling that of others. His
harrassment, were he here in the US, could land him in court. As he has
no assets of note and lives in Bolivia he feels he can do what he wants
without recourse. I really don't want anything from him except to leave
me alone.
I have not done anything illegal, immoral or even unkind in my dealings
with Ron. In both cases I've just tried to help him and have received
nothing but trouble in return. I have not used my religion to gain his
trust. My religion is a big part of who I am and so it was part of our
discussions before Ron's paranoia got the worst of him.
I really don't know how to end this so Ron will quit harrassing me,
you, Bishop Rees, and others.
Joe
--- davis ron
>
>
> --- Dan Wotherspoon
>
> > From: "Dan Wotherspoon"
> > To: "davis ron"
> > Subject: Re: Re: Impersonating an LDS Bishop
> > Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 09:09:22 -0600
> >
> > The name Robert Rees is certainly not uncommon.
> > From the response of the
> > Bob Rees I know, he certainly isn't surprised that
> > someone living in Utah
> > might have his name. This won't be a matter he'd
> > want to get involved with,
> > so I won't be forwarding you his email address.
> >
> > From the context of It seems to me that you are of
> > the impression that the
> > title of "bishop" is similar in scope in Mormonism
> > as it is in Catholicism.
> > This isn't the case. Mormonism has a lay
> > priesthood, and every LDS "ward"
> > (congregation) has a bishop. And there are tens of
> > thousands of wards in
> > the world, and the role of bishop rotates to another
> > person every five years
> > or so. So, for instance, my friend Bob Rees was
> > once in the role of bishop
> > but hasn't served in that capacity for twenty years
> > or so. Hence your
> > assumptions about this being alarming and surpise
> > over what you see as a
> > lack of response, if it is indeed a case of
> > impersonation, are a bit
> > overinflated. This isn't like a Catholic bishop who
> > is even higher in the
> > hierarchy than a priest. LDS bishops receive no
> > theological training and do
> > not draw a salary, they are simply volunteers who
> > have agreed to lead a
> > congregation for a few years. Certainly they
> > counsel and on occasion
> > administer things like Church discipline, but
> > typically they are just good
> > guys trying their best to help members of their ward
> > feel connected and
> > engaged and grow spiritually.
> >
> > I really don't know the issues in your complaint
> > against this person or your
> > associate who wanted this person to arbitrate your
> > disagreement, but it
> > seems to me that you should just go to a civil
> > authority instead. If your
> > associate is using his supposed "faithful Mormon
> > insider" status to defraud
> > people, prosecute the hell out of him for the fraud.
> > Trading on Mormon
> > belief and touting one's piety is indeed immoral,
> > and I'm hoping there's a
> > special kind of torment for such folks who do so
> > with the intention of
> > gaining undeserved trust, but it seems to me best to
> > bring it to the courts
> > and realm of public discourse so this person will be
> > exposed and won't be
> > able to use that kind of leverage again.
> >
> > Good luck,
> > Dan
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "davis ron"
> > To:
> > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 8:26 AM
> > Subject: Re: Re: Impersonating an LDS Bishop
> >
> >
> > > Sept. 25, 06
> > >
> > > Hello Dan,
> > >
> > > Thank you for your response. I'm sure that you
> > > are very busy.
> > > I would like to communicate directly with bishop
> > > Rees in order to provide him with information
> > > regarding this matter so he can bring charges
> > against
> > > the individual impersonating him. May I please
> > have
> > > his e-mail address?
> > > I'm sure the LDS Church would be very interested
> > as
> > > well. Or at least, I hope so. Who should I write
> > to?
> > >
> > > I am certainly owed an explanation. Do you not
> > agree?
> > > Mainly, I want to make sure that the authentic
> > > Bishop Rees had no part whatsoever in this matter.
> > > I have been very surprised at the lack of
> > response.
> > > Perhaps this kind of thing happens more often than
> > I
> > > could have possibly imagined.
> > >
> > > All the best, and thank you again,
> > >
> > > Ron Davis
> > > Campo Nuevo,
> > > La Paz, Bolivia
> > > 591 2 2493646, 591 71527700
> > > watermotor.net
> > >
> > > --- Dan Wotherspoon
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Ron,
> > >>
> > >> I'm running a magazine and a small, overreaching
> > >> non-profit organization
> > >> Sorry, I just don't have time to get involved. I
> > >> hesitated to even reply in
> > >> the first place but the mention of the name of a
> > >> friend sent me into it only
> > >> as far as whether it was him or not.
> > >>
> > >> Surely you have a friend in the US who has a
> > stake
> > >> in the issues related to
> > >> your dispute and would make the inquiries for you
> > at
> > >> LDS headquarters about
> > >> who the bishop is for a person living at that
> > >> address.
> > >>
> > >> Best of luck,
> > >> Dan Wotherspoon
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "davis ron"
> > >> To: "Dan Wotherspoon"
> > >> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 2:29 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: Re: Impersonating an LDS Bishop
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Dan,
> > >> > I don't know if I mentioned that I am in South
> > >> > America.
> > >> >
> > >> > Hartvigsen's address is:
> > >> >
> > >> > 1529 South 400 East
> > >> > Kaysville, UT 84037 USA
> > >> >
> > >> > Does that help?
> > >> > Ron
> > >> >
> > >> > --- Dan Wotherspoon
> > >> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> My guess is there are about two dozen or more
> > LDS
> > >> >> bishops in Kaysville,
> > >> >> Utah. You'll need to find out the exact name
> > of
> > >> the
> > >> >> ward this guy is
> > >> >> pretending to be the bishop of. With that
> > name
> > >> in
> > >> >> hand, you can either call
> > >> >> the LDS Church headquarters to get the name
> > and
> > >> >> phone number of the real
> > >> >> bishop of that ward (240-1000 is their general
> > >> >> information line, which can
> > >> >> direct you to the right department for that
> > info)
> > >> or
> > >> >> simply look it up in
> > >> >> the white pages under Church of Jesus Christ
> > of
> > >> >> Latter-day Saints, then find
> > >> >> the Kaysville stake this ward is in, then
> > you'll
> > >> see
> > >> >> listings of each ward
> > >> >> below that.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I wrote to Bob Rees in California when you
> > first
> > >> >> mentioned his name. He
> > >> >> wrote the following back:
> > >> >>
>
=== message truncated ===
