Wim Klunne refused to reply, no explanation given
Hartvigsen: "I have re-read it and stand by what is written", referring to his posting to Yahoo microyhydro Group of Dec.12, 05:
http://www.mail-archive.com/microhydro@yahoogroups.com/msg01659.html
microhydro@yahoogroups.com 12 marzo 2009 • 4:11AM -0400
[microhydro] Re: Open letter to Wim Klunne, http://microhydropower.net e-group, site owner
by Joseph Hartvigsen
Ron,
I don't know what you are referring to in some of your comments below. I will delete those portions in order make it easier to see what you've said, and number the points that I will respond to.
1)
Ingela Carlsson exits, just as surely as her late husband did when he created the spoon design and made the considerable investment in an injection mold. I have received packages of spoons mailed directly to me from Mrs. Carlsson with a note enclosed in her own hand. Peter has offered to take you to meet Mrs. Carlsson in Sweden. Peter has a nice guest house and is a gracious host. I have stayed there. He can show you many nice small hydro sites. His only requirement was that after doing so that you stop making these absurd claims and pay him the requested amount for the spoons you have sold.
Peter was contacted by several people regarding the "reward". He explained the situation and what it has been like dealing with Ron for years. They understood, got a good laugh out of it all and left. This does not change the fact of that the spoons came from the Carlsson estate.
You have harassed me for years on this issue. I've asked you the following and you've never answered - just like you never told me which question in the previously posted quiz you can not answer "TRUE".
>From: Joseph Hartvigsen
>To: davis ron
>Date: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 9:17:03 AM
>Subject: Re: Can you offer any proof whatsoever ?
> Ron,
> Where do you think the spoons came from?
> A. They sprouted legs and crawled out of the swamp.
> B. The stork brought them.
> C. My sister found them in a reed basket floating in the bull rushes.
> D. An alien abducted me and I stole them from their ship before I got away.
> E. Santa left them because someone was a very good boy.
> Or, the only plausible explanation is the one that I've been giving for nearly a decade, and is the one you
> accepted until the owner requested you pay to copy something that belonged to them.
> This has long since gone past the ridiculous and absurd and is well into the insane.
> LEAVE ME ALONE !
> Joe
So Ron, if the spoons did not come from where we've always said they came from, WHERE DID THEY COME FROM?
2)
Can you be more specific as to how I've threatened or insulted you other than just stating facts and history?
3)
Thank you for providing the group my prior posting to this group on this issue in the link
http://www.mail-archive.com/microhydro@yahoogroups.com/msg01659.html
I have re-read it and stand by what is written.
You state "Many other statements made in this posting can be shown to be completely untrue". I am not aware of what that is. Can you please enumerate the specific questions, as I did in the quiz I posted for you?
4)
I can't speak for Nando, but I know he isn't disputing the fact that Ingela Carlsson was Peter's original source for the spoons left after her husband passed away. Rather, I think he is saying (if he isn't I am) that it is irrelevant. They came from somewhere. Maybe we haven't proven to you or the world that Peter now owns the spoons (though as the sole source in the world it seems obvious), but it is clearly proven that you A) are not the creator of this specific form and B) you do not have the permission of the creator or his assignee to copy the spoon and C) you have admitted using a part that I received from Mrs. Carlsson as the form to create a mold for making copies. How would you finding and harassing Mrs. Carlsson like you've harassed Peter, me, Wim and Nando change anything?
5)
If you've read what I've written it is clear. Peter bought the design from Mrs. Carlsson. He (Cargo & Kraft) now owns it. It is that simple. Do I need to show you every place I've told you that?
The details of the transactions between Peter and Mrs. Carlsson are a private matter that is absolutely none of your business, nor is it any business of mine. It is strictly between the two parties of the transaction. There are no competing claims of ownership here (other than your claim of open ownership which has been clearly refuted). I accept the fact that Peter is now the owner of the design. As such, I have entered into agreements with Cargo & Kraft allowing me to produce this design.
It is long past time that you acknowledge that Cargo & Kraft AB of Sweden is the sole owner of this particular design. As I have blocked your email address your admission will have to be by posting to this group. I think we will all be happy to have this resolved and behind us.
6)
They have posted your message as you've insisted. The group is probably tired of this, but I don't need to hide from your questions. Can we now insist that you give specific, clear and rational answers to the questions I've posed here, and the true/false quiz I posted earlier?
Joe
--- In microhydro@yaho..., ottorike@... wrote:
>
>
> Open letter to Wim Klunne, http://microhydropower.net e-group site owner
>
1)
> I do know, and can prove to anyone's satisfaction, that you have been a active party from the beginning to Hartvigsen's and Ruyter's "Widow Carlson" fraudulent attempt to take over the public domain Swedish turgo turbine design we use.
> Hartvigsen had already been using this ficticious story for years, with never any proof provided that their Widow Ingela Carlson existed.
2)
> Just threats and insults, as you saw.
1 cont')
> You were later informed that the Swedish police, government welfare agencies, and five detective agencies found no proof that such a person ever existed. A $1000 dollar reward offered in eleven Swedish newspapers had the same result.
> You had been repeatedly told there was no such person even before you allowed Hartvigsen's Dec. 12, 05 posting to the group (below), (which you have now removed from the archives).
3)
> http://www.mail-archive.com/microhydro@yaho.../msg01659.html
>
> (Many other statements made in this posting can be shown to be completely untrue simply by reading the early group archives.(http://microhydropower.net, search: turgo))
4)
> Now, after years of allowing Hartvigsen to tell the members that the reason my turbines are illegal is because his partner Ruyter bought the design from the widow of the still un-named designer, who I am cheating out of her legitimate royalty payments, you are still allowing Hartvigsen and "Nando" to continue to make the same ownership claim on your site, but now without the widow Carlson story!
> "Nando" is now saying, Forget the Widow!
5)
> You must really think the members are stupid. What an insult to the group!
> Tell me, who do Hartvigsen and Ruyter now claim to have bought the design from, and who am I now supposed to be cheating out of their rightful royalty payments?
> Did you bother to ask? Obviously not!
> Yet you continue to allow Hartvigsen "Nando" to make the same accusations against me on your site, still telling the world that my turbines are illegal.
6)
> In any case I have to insist on being able to face my accusers.
> I intend, one way or the other, to make the truth of this matter known.
>
> Ron Davis
> watermotor.net
> watermotor@yahoo.com
joseph hartvigsen hydro peter ruyter cargo and kraft turgo turbine runner ceramatec micro hydro sweden fraud yahoo microhydro group
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