"Maybe it is time...that the Watermotor to be added to the list of counterfeit items that customs agents are looking for".Dec. 8, 2006

Hartvigsen's Threat of Legal Action:"Maybe it is time...that the Watermotor to be added
to the list of counterfeit items that customs agents are looking for".Dec. 8, 2006


Re: Bob in D.C. re: hartvigsen's sole objection to my message of Dec. 5, 06, Joe's claims to Honesty
Friday, December 8, 2006 6:28 PM
From:
"Joseph Hartvigsen"
View contact details
To:
"davis ron"
Cc:
"Peter Ruyter"


Ron,
In my previous reply, I most certainly did not agree that your message
was accurate, to the contrary I stated "I have repeatedly responded to
your errors and inaccurate statements and you don't address the
issues." That can hardly be construed as agreement to a message so full
of falsehood that it is pointless to list them all.

However, your claim in this message that I should pay you for your
illegal and blatant knock-off copies of the Swedish design is the most
brazen distortion of truth and common sense that you've imagined yet.

> By your standards of intellectual property rights,
> you should probably be paying me to copy my cast metal
> turgo runners.

Item number 2 on your own web site:
http://www.watermotor.net/indexflash.htm
acknowledges that these are a recent Swedish design

"2. Modern efficient Swedish designed Turgo runners in
bronze or nylon, converts waterpower into mechanical power
at 80-85% efficiency."

I have repeatedly referred you to the section of US copyright (which by
treaty is consistent with other civilized nation) explaining why your
copies are illegal and un-authorized. I have likewise directed you to
the lawful owner of that right (Ingela Carlsson, then later Peter
Ruyter) in Sweden.

I remind you that you had seen these photos of a 16 spoon turgo runner
that I built, before you built "my cast metal turgo runners".
http://www.microhydropower.net/mhp_group/hartvig/2.php
So, you have not only copied the spoon, but my earlier construction of
the 16 spoon runner (the spoons are sized for 24 spoon runners). I have
not prohibited this as the templates have been on my web site.

I have numerous photos (a selection of which are attached) of the 150mm
16 "orangespoon" runners that you have made without authorization from
the copyright owner (not me). You have repeatedly been asked to cease
and desist.

Whether the spoons were made by sand casting or rubber mold is
irrelevant. Either requires an impression made from a copyright
article, which you purchase from Sweden by way of me. Furthermore, your
10/25/2001 disclosure of your rubber like molding compound stated (last
line before your signature line) "It can also be used to make strong
yet flexible molds for wax casting". The first photos of your copied
spoon runners are dated August of 2001.

The money for your copies was never for me. If you are worried that the
money would go to me or Peter, mail your payment to Peter in Ingela's
name and I'm sure he will be happy to send it on to her.

Imported goods that violate international copyright law can be seized
in customs. Maybe it is time to request that the watermotor to be added
to the list of counterfeit items that customs agents are looking for. I
don't think that we'll have any trouble finding agreement from the
authorities that the runners in the attached photos are copies of the
orange Swedish design turgo.

Joe



--- davis ron wrote:
> Dec. 8, 06
>
> Joe,
>
> Thank you for your comments on my Dec. 5, 06
> message. As your saw, I presented my message to you
> and your lawyer before sending it out because I wanted
> to make sure that it was accurate, so there is no
> question of any "outrageous provocation", as you put
> it.
> I don't remember you specifying which turgo model
> you publicly claimed I was using wax and rubber to
> make illicit copies of. Since your claims to the right
> to collect money from me have no basis outside your
> imagination I cannot see how it makes any differance.
> It is simply grasping at straws.
> What I should have written is that I have never used
> a rubber mold or wax replica to produce turgo spoons
> of any kind, nor have I ever "admitted" doing so. Have
> you ever seen one of these, or can tell me anyone who
> has? You have publicly repeated this false claim
> several times, as has Ruyter, so it must be important
> for your fraudulent assertions.
>
> In assummed that you were speaking of the small blue
> spoons because those are the ones you refused to sell
> me unless I submitted to your extortionist and
> fraudulent attempts to obtain money with your false
> and long term public claims to having the right to
> collect royalties from me on behalf of an old lady in
> Sweden, whose existence neither you nor your "partner"
> Peter Ruyter can ever prove actually exists.
> Peter Ruyter will not verify your other claims--that
> he owns any sort of intellectual property rights or
> that he gave you the right to collect money from me on
> his behalf.
> Actually, as I have mentioned many times, I use
> ordinary sand casting to produce my model 150 turgo
> wheels.
> By your standards of intellectual property rights,
> you should probably be paying me to copy my cast metal
> turgo runners.
> In any case, you and your lawyer have had plenty of
> time to examine what I have sent to you and assume
> that was the only statement you took exception to.
> I assume that you bring that up because you continue
> to claim that I am illicitly producing turgo runners
> for my Watermotors and am cheating an old lady in
> Sweden, who's intellectual property rights you say you
> are protecting.
> Why don't you see if Klunne will allow you to repeat
> your claims and accusations about me on the microhydro
> e-group website?
> Ron
>
>
>
> Hi Ron,
> Thank you for the thoughts on honesty. Twice a year
> the Church has a
> worldwide general conference, the most recent being
> this weekend. I
> spent 10 hours (6 on Sat, 4 on Sun) listening or
> watching the
> proceedings. There was an excellent talk on the
> subject of honesty and
> integrity yesterday morning. You can download the
> audio or video from
> the link below.
>
>
http://www.lds.org/conference/sessions/display/0,5239,49-1-646,00.html
> -> Sunday Morning Session -> Bishop Richard C. Edgley
>
> Here is a summary from the Desert Morning News web
> site.
>
> One way to stand apart from a world that has become
> increasingly
> dishonest is by living principles of honesty and
> integrity, said Bishop
> Richard C. Edgley, first counselor in the church's
> Presiding Bishopric.
>
> "Honesty should be among the most fundamental
> values that govern
> our everyday living," he said. "When we are true to
> the sacred
> principles of honesty and integrity, we are true to
> our faith and we
> are true to ourselves.
>
> Obviously you sent this not for my spiritual
> education, as I am well
> aquainted with this principal of the gospel, but
> because you think I am
> a lying cheat. I feel quite badly that you think this
> of me in spite of
> my continued efforts to explain the facts surrounding
> the issues of why
> Ceramatec suggested adding co-invetors to a joint
> patent on FiberSil,
> and why I believe that it is not only legal but
> rightful to request
> payment for turgospoon copies on behalf of the owner
> of the design.
>
> Ceramatec now has a full time in house patent
> attorney. He is a hard
> working, experienced, ethical and fair person. I have
> briefly discussed
> both topics with him. The definition of co-inventors
> (co-inventors does
> not mean the idea came at the same time, rather that
> the collection of
> ideas presented in the patent came from the
> co-inventors) and the need
> to list them in a patent was confirmed, as was a more
> detailed
> explanation confirming the applicability of copyright
> laws to physical
> articles, without the need to file (as you can read on
> www.copyright.gov ).
>
> If there is anything I can do to help work out this
> disagreement with
> you, I would like to do so.
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Joseph Hartvigsen wrote:
>
> > Ron,
> > I have repeatedly responded to your errors and
> > inaccurate statements
> > and you don't address the issues. You have yet to
> > try me and send me an order (with 3 USD/spoon plus
> > postage ) for the bluespoons and see if you get
> > them.
> >
> > Your comment below that we accuse you of copying
> > bluespoons with a rubber mold is an outrageous
> > provocation! It is the obviously the orange spoons
> > that you have copied, the photo with the VW bus
> > notwithstanding. You know it, and anyone who looks
> > at the spoons and your copies knows it. I have
> > plenty of pictures and the data from your web site
> > to prove it.
> >
> > Just tell me two things since you won't accept our
> > assertion on this topic.
> >
> > Who do you think designed the spoons and what
> > happened to his rights to his design?
> >
> > How did you get the rights to copy them?
> >
> >
> > Joe
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > davis ron wrote:
> > Joe, as always I invite you and Bob Rees to check
> > this for errors or inaccurate statements. Please
> > respond asap as there is much more.
> >
> >
> > For nearly six years Joseph Hartvigsen of Salt
> > Lake
> > City, Utah, has been publicly claiming that I am
> > illicitly producing my Watermotor turbines here in
> > Bolivia.
> > He originally claimed that the runner (small
> > waterwheel) design we use is the intellectual
> > property
> > of a poor widow in Sweden, and that he
> > (Hartvigsen) had been granted the right to collect
> > $32
> > for each turbine we produce here in Bolivia, on her
> > behalf.
> > He twice repeated this claim to the 2000 plus
> > worldwide members of the Yahoo Micro-hydro power
> > e-group on Dec. 12, and Dec. 20, 05.
> > Contrary to what he implies in this posting,
> > Hartvigsen began making this claim to collect
> > royalties shortly after I announced to the
> > microhydro
> > group that I had finished testing and begun
> > patenting
> > the Watermotor (group archive Jan. 2001) not the
> > runner, but the power control device I had invented
> > which uniquely allows the Watermotor to be used to
> > directly drive machines.He said that the money was
> > to
> > be used to pay for one of Peter Ruyter's turbines in
>
=== message truncated ===

Joseph Hartvigsen
Hartvigsen-Hydro
1529 South 400 East
Kaysville, UT 84037 USA

Micro Hydro components, turgo runners
http://h-hydro.com

Swedish Patent Office:"The main principle is that the one who claims that he has a protection has to prove it." Feb. 3, 2006

SV: Question from Bolivia--Swedish Turgo Design Rights, Mr. Bo Hallgren
Friday, February 3, 2006 10:53 AM
From:
"Hallgren Bo"
View contact details
To:
watermotor@yahoo.com

Dear Ron Davis,

Thank you for your email.

The main principle is that the one who claims that he has a protection has to prove it.
This means if there is a Patent or Design protection in the country where you produce or sell your product the owner of the right has to provide you with the registration number of his rights.

Copyright is, as you might know, normally not registered but it is rarely the case that technical equipment is protected by copyright.

I suggest that you consult an expertienced lawyer in this field.

Best regards / Bo Hallgren



-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: davis ron [mailto:watermotor@yahoo.com]
Skickat: den 2 februari 2006 22:46
Till: prv.patent@prv.se
Ämne: Question from Bolivia--Swedish Turgo Design Rights, Mr. Bo Hallgren


Feb. 2, 06

Dear Mr. Hallgren,

I am an appropriate technology inventor working
with the indigenous people of Bolivia for a number of
years.
We build small turbines with a patented (in
Bolivia) on/off power control switch which allows the
turbine to be used in place an electric motor to
directly drive machines. (See: watermotor.net)
I designed this turbine to use a turgo type turbine
wheel which was originally from Sweden.
After I designed this turbine and power control system
I was told that I should be paying royalties to a man
in Sweden to use this turgo design because he owned
the "design rights". When I would write to this man in Sweden
to ask about his design rights he would not
reply--until recently.
This is an important matter to us here in Bolivia
because we need to know if this man will sue us.
He has been demanding $32 U.S. for each turbine we
produce.
Also, this man tells people that we are cheating him
out of royalty money.
Recently I asked other members of the Internet
Microhydro group we both belong to if anyone knew
whether there actually was any sort of patent or
design right for this turgo turbine design. I then
received a e-mail from the Swedish man threatening me
with legal action if I used this design without his
consent. But he again failed to provide any
information about the design rights he says he has.
He now refuses to answer my e-mails.
My understanding is that even if "design rights"
actually exist, and he owns them, they would not apply
in this situation because my turbines are cast
aluminum or bronze, not plastic as his are. My turgo
wheel are also a different size as well.
Since he has threatened to sue me I must take this
seriously. He has far more resources than we do.
From his statement he is claiming that under Swedish
law he has the right to do this. If he does not have
the rights he claims to have then perhaps he may be
guilty of attempted fraud and extortion.
This has been going on for several years and it has
been damaging to our work here in Bolivia.
We need to know what to do in this case. I feel that
this man would not be trying to do this if we were not
in a poor country in South America.

Sincerely,
Ron Davis,
Campo Nuevo,
La Paz, Bolivia

watermotor@yahoo.com



Here is his last letter:

Sat, 17 Dec 2005 00:01:20 +0100
To: "davis ron"
From: "Peter Ruyter" View
Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Plasticspoons

Mr Davis
In my mail of 00-09-12 I have given you my opinion
about your way to
walk at the earth.
I can one moore time tell you: You are at the wrong
side of normal
sense. I am the owner of all produced plastic spoons,
red, white and
blue. If anybody without my autorization copie one of
these products
for using to make repeting production of these
products I am able to
lead these activities to court in any civilized
country around the
world as a case of illegal use of copyright.
If you understand these, we can negotiate about
royalty, copycost,
rental or what you ever like to call the right to do a copieactivites
with our property as masterform. Read carefully my
mail of 00-09-12.
You have allready done many professionals at the group
silent and
without willing to give know-how to the forum.
As I said, you have realy destroyed the possibility
for many poor
peoples to take part of developing works.

I enclose the old mails text, to refresh your memory:
>> Evening Ron and Diane.
>> I am a litlle bit sad, beqaus you not answering my
mails.
>> And when I understand you are using my work and
make copies of our
products.
>> Its very sad, and its a backslash for whole area
of intrest for
spending
>> time, love and monye for developing good working
hydroproducts with
small
>> economical frames.
>> I look for a good explanation and I hope to come
in mode for
spending moore
>> power to develop better things and moore power to
pore peoples.
>> Peter

I have also invited you to Sweden, to have a vistit at
the family
where we overtok the spoons. The widow, Ingela have
ben informed
about you and she is not impressed.

Hereby I invite you again, to visit us and meet Ingela
and look at
her former husbands work.
If you find anything incorrect against all information
you have got
in this case, I will pay all of your cost from the
minute you leave
your home untill the minute you arrive back.

If you understand, during this vsisit, all information
you have got
are correct, you have to give Joe Hartvigsen, my US
partner, an open
mail there you regret all of your activites.
--
All the best!
Peter Ruyter
(owner&responsible)
Cargo &Kraft Turbin Sverige AB
SE-739 92 SKINNSKATTEBERG
SWEDEN

Smallscale hydropower.
2 kW to 4000 kW
1 meter to 30 meter head.

watermotor bolivia turgo turbine cargo and kraft Skinnskatteberg swedish patent office joseph hartvigsen wim klunne yahoo microhydro group peter ruyter fraud turgo patent

Swedish patent Office, Bo Hallgren:"I have, personally, never heard about adoption as a term in connection with Intellectual Property", Jan. 16, 2008

Swedish patent Office, Bo Hallgren:"I have, personally, never heard about adoption as a term in connection with Intellectual Property".


SV: Bo, Question---Does the Swedish Gov. recognize "adoption" as IP ownership?
Wednesday, January 16, 2008 7:46 AM
From:
"Hallgren Bo"
View contact details
To:
"davis ron"
Dear Ron,

As we do not register Copyright in this country we have never met that problem.
I have, personally, never heard about adoption as a term in connection with Intellectual Property.

Best regards / Bo

-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: davis ron [mailto:watermotor@yahoo.com]
Skickat: den 15 januari 2008 20:13
Till: Hallgren Bo
Ämne: Bo, Question---Does the Swedish Gov. recognize "adoption" as IP ownership?


Jan. 15, 08
To: Bo Hallgren, Swedish Patent Office

Dear Bo,

Does the Swedish gov. patent office recognize a
catagory of IP ownership called "adoption"?

Ron Davis
watermotor.net


"Basically, the spoons are orphans that Peter found and
we adopted".

November 7, 2002

At 13:33 02/10/30 -0700, you wrote:
Hi Ron,
I look forward to your dyno data. The only good
numbers I have
are for the combination of turbine and generator
being 50%
efficient using a 1/3 hp DC brush type motor and a
9/32" nozzle
with about 50' of head. These aren't really ideal
conditions.
The motor was much larger than needed for the output.
The
nozzle much smaller than ideal for the blue spoons.
I'd really
like to see numbers with something like a 1/2" nozzle
and
a direct measurement on the turbine rather than
electric output.

I'll look at the return address on the spoon mailers
for an
address for Ingela Carlsson. Peter said she is about
2 hrs north
of him "in the woods". I have a postcard note from
her that
came in one of the shipments here in my briefcase,
but it
doesn't have an address. I asked Peter if she had any
design
info, or the injection molding die, or test data,
etc. He has asked
and she doesn't. Her husband died something like 10
years before
Peter met her. She and her sons don't want to have
anything
to do with it as they blame his heart attack on his
hydro obsession.
Basically, the spoons are orphans that Peter found and
we adopted.

Joe

Ruyter: "..this on-going terrorist act in the turbine world" .Feb. 27, 08

Yahoo! Mail

Re: Hartvigsen and Ruyter's Turgo Design Ownership Scam
Wednesday, February 27, 2008 3:32 AM
From:
"Sara Pettersson Ruyter"
View contact details
To:
"davis ron"
Cc:
hq@cargo-kraft.se
To Ron Davies and whomever it might concern:

As being the COB and representatives of the owners of Cargo & Kraft Turbin Sweden AB, I hereby would like to put an end to this on-going terrorist act in the turbine world.

Mrs. Carlsson is very much a living person, being the widow of the swedish inventor of the discussed turgo desgin. We met the first time about 8 years ago and began discussions about what to do with her heritage after her husband. Later Mrs Carlson decided to sell the inventories, stock and knowledge to CKTAB. This has been proven to, by Mr. R Davies mentioned investigators among others, in Sweden and leaving them in full trust of the rightness of CKTAB in this case.

Due to introduced personality of Mr. R. Davies, we have chosen to keep Mrs. I Carlson out of this debacle. She, being a lady of plus 70, with poor knowledge of foregin languages.

CKTAB began working together with Mr J Hartivgsen many years ago. Mr Peter Ruyter and Mr Joe Hartvigsen are fullyrepsonible for all action taken and we are truly impressed by the handling of this case.

We urge Mr Ron Davies will stop terrorising whomever he thinks will have interest in his invented story. Truth is; he bought plastic spoons from us, copied them in metal and sold them as his invention. Don´t bring this story back to the 16th century, this is reality, today.

Short version is; STOP this e-mail bombing of people, institutions and departments not being interested in Mr Davies fraud.
We have all better things to do.

Sincerely,
Mrs S Pettersson
peter ruyter sweden libel cargo and kraft turgo turbine joseph hartvigsen hydro h-hydro extortion fraud internet fraud water power watermotor ingela carlson scam