"Nando" on Hartvigsen's "illegal" Watermotors Claim to worldwide Yahoo microhydro Group, March 10, 09

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m : microhydro@yahoogroups.com

2009-03-10 22:32:32.0 • 2009-03-10 22:32:32.0

Re: [microhydro] COPYRIGHT LAW
by Nando

Google me that

Google me that

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Michael:

I see that you do not understand the law.

Though somebody may have "invented" " designed" "developed" , let's say in this case a spoon for a Turgo Turbine ( done by Gilkes in England in the early 1930 ) -- his spoon lacked certain properties that some others improved and could patent as patentable improvements -- quite common in all the world industries -- some chose instead of a patent to keep their work as a copyright product -- which does not allow the "cloning" of the product .

The Turgo spoons though existing in different form -- several types I have known along my life -- can be copyright to protect against "cloning" Which is what RON Davis have done and initially recognized by him when confronted by Joe Hartvigsen and the owner of the copyright Peter Ruyter agree to allow RON to do the copy by paying a royalty -- which "offended" RON.

It seems by the way you wrote the message that RON is connecting with you -- to call "foul" because it seems that he is not allowed to respond to those things..

I believe you are wrong -- that is RON's cry, because the only thing that RON does is to demand and demand and demand where the Widow Carlsson is-- for sure to harass her to no end -- the way that it seems that has or used to harass Joe Hartvigsen.

Question, somebody should have paid to make the molds to cast the spoons, also the technician to form the physical model to make the molds -- the owner of the molds must have the copyright to those spoons made with those molds .!!!!!!!

RON has not, to this day, responded to direct questions regarding this problem -- He is the spam to Joe -- he used to be to me, but one time, I got a message , I think, from a group from AFRICA and confronted him and called : Pathological Liar and from there on I blocked him from my internet and every time he used another email address, I added it to the blocked and send the emails to a SCUM BAG Folder.

His site watermotor.net still today ( march, 10, 2009, 8:10 AM CDT) has the PURCHASE tab showing that his turbines specify SWEDISH NYLON and SWEDISH BRONZE Spoons.

This is in addition a classical illegal advertisement it is called : BAIT & SWITCH -- because he is not selling the SWEDISH NYLON or BRONZE spoon design -- It seems that he is selling Aluminum Spoons cloned from a SWEDISH Designed Spoon. -- STILL ILLEGAL .

I wonder how many people have been giving the aluminum spoons which is a soft metal, even if silicon is added -- very bad for sites with some head and carrying some sand.

I do not believe that the moderator will not allow RON to respond to the questions -- without always asking for the widow Carlsson.

Widow Carlsson is out of the picture.

RON included me because I was assisting JOE in sending a mechanical counter and I included a cheap DVM as a gift to HIM, the counter donated by Joe -- I was going to visit him when going to Bolivia to assist in his turbine design and to see how his idea of CAMPO NUEVO was to even help him financially, but his shenanigans made me cancel my visit and I told him so --which automatically included me in the problem and feud he chose to generate..

The truth is coming out -- and his behavior is damaging, deeply, his wife dream of CAMPO NUEVO.

Personal defense is done, responding directly to those that present the points and not by ONLY asking about widow Carlsson.

RON , normally, runs to capture those that may indicate a slight position toward him -- reason why I believe he has connected with you .

I assist people freely, and in many cases I have assisted even financially to some that needed --

So, I am clarifying my position and for one, I have been told that the says that I send HATE email all over --THAT is a LIE - I do not waste my time in efforts that do not good to me or my character.

Nando





----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Welch
To: microhydro@yaho...
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:38 AM
Subject: Re: [microhydro] COPYRIGHT LAW


Hi Nando. I am sure that you believe you are right.

What *I* personally find dubious is that there was a "creation of an original work." (note: dubious is different than "wrong." Like those that say they "know" god exists, I do not believe you can "know" that the Swedish spoons were an "original work." Like true believers around the world, you are taking a leap of faith.)

I do know that you can't just take an already existing thing, spit polish it, and call it an original work. The next person has every right in the world to use their own spit on a copy, even if it burnishes it.

BTW, apparently Ron is not allowed by the list owner to respond to these things -- for whatever reason -- I am not passing judgement on those reasons. But it is quite obvious that anti-Rons are frequent posters here without Ron's personal defense.

Like I said before, it takes a leap of faith to throw in with either side in this feud.

Nando wrote at 04:50 PM 3/9/2009:

>Group:
>
>This is a basic analysis. The infringer RON was " willful" !!!!!
>
>I found this link that I think is quite logical to send due to what is happening right now in the group.
>
>NOTICE that the BENE CONVENTION allows : "after the transfer of the said rights", the author shall have the right to claim authorship of the work .
>
>It does not matter if the Carlsson have died or not and there is another owner of such copyright -- notice as well -- the damages .
>
>It is time that RON stops witch hunting for the widow Carlsson and have the character to accept that he is wrong and do behave accordingly.
>
>Widow Carlsson hunting is the excuse of RON to continue refusing to accept the truth --
>
>It is RON's Teflon raincoat !!
>
>Another reason why he just asks the same question and NEVER answered a direct question or questions posted to RON.
>
>Nando

Nando, hartvigsen, turgo, wim klunne, brian kunzler, yahoo microhydro, internet fraud, watermotor, ron davis, bolivia, ceramatec, inl, coorstek, turgo turbine peter ruyter, bolivia,
>
>

Hartvigsen Proof of Turgo Design Ownership, Dec.23, 09

The scrap of paper shown here is what Joseph Hartvigsen presented to our lawyer on Dec. 23, 09, as proof of his decade long public claims that his partner in Sweden owns the turgo design we use, that our Watermotor turbines are "illegal". It is also his proof that we are cheating an old lady in Sweden out of her legitimate right to collect royalty payments from us. Hartvigsen has used this claim, made continuously to the worldwide microhydro community on the Internet to destroy our rural microhydro project in Bolivia, and to build up his own turbine business.

Photo of Peter Ruyter with Guns

When asked for proof of his right to claim ownership of the Turgo design, as the law requires, he would send insults and threats and a photo of himself with guns.

Hartvigsen: "Anyway, I think the answer is no, you don't have that right".

Hartvigsen: "Anyway, I think the answer is no, you don't have that right".
Nov. 10, 2010


From: Joseph Hartvigsen
To: davis ron
Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 9:47:53 PM
Subject: Re: Hartvigsen and Ruyter--Do you deny that I have always had an absolute right to demand that you present proof to support your public claims that my Watermotor turbines are illegal?
And that you had a legal obligation to provide that proof?

Ron,
I think there is a disconnect on the standard of proof. I've repeatedly outlined the facts that any "original expression fixed in a tangible medium" is copyright without filing. I've given you the U.S. Government documents stating as such (circ01.pdf from copyrights.gov) The spoons exist, therefor there is a copyright. The identity of their creator was known and obvious to everyone except you, as being the historical source of the spoons and later his heir and her assignee (Peter). Do you have a legal right to demand dated drawings and invoices for the original spoons I've created? It is possible that such documentation never existed if someone designed from their head and built with their own hands. Anyway, I think the answer is no, you don't have that right. It should be obvious as there has never been any other primary source for these items. The same logic applies to the spoons from Sweden.

And, as I keep saying since talking to Brian it is all moot given the legal interpretation given to functional items that the copyright only protects the appearance and brand sort of issues and not the function. Further, we never were going after you. You were going after us and we were defending our position for having asked in the first place. That has always been clearly articulated in public postings in response to your badgering. You have also had a long standing invitation to go view the original documents. There is no legal responsibility to deliver any such proof to your doorstep.

So, when do you want to see this proof you are so insistent on seeing? As we keep saying, if you want to see the proof go visit Peter but there is no obligation for us to go to Bolivia to show you and there is no way you get your own copies of private documents.

When do you want to go? The evidence provided yesterday should be sufficient to give you expectation of seeing what you seek when you arrive in Sweden.

Joe


From: davis ron
To: Joseph Hartvigsen
Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 4:24:18 PM
Subject: Re: Hartvigsen and Ruyter--..I have always had an absolute right to demand that you present proof..

Joe
This is a central point:

Do you deny that I have always had an absolute right to demand that you present proof to support your public claims that my Watermotor turbines are illegal?
And that you had a legal obligation to provide that proof?



Joseph Hartvigsen, ceramatec, brian kunzler lawyer, extortion, fraud, Internet fraud, sweden, IP rights, turgo design, watermotor, wim klunne, corruption, IP law, Swedish police, bolivia

Hartvigsen's Internet War on the Watermotor-How it worked.

Hartvigsen began his War on the Watermotor on Dec.12, 05, with the help of Wim Klunne, list owner of the Yahoo microhydro group. (microhydropower.net)

It was very simple---Hartvigsen tells the membership that my turbines are "illegal" because, according to him, his partner in Sweden, Peter Ruyter, owns the turgo turbine design we use in our Watermotors, and that I refuse to pay them "royalties".

Wim Klunne knows very well that Hartvigsen has been making this claim for years without proof, as the law requires.
But what he does is to prevent me from making any reply.
Of course the membership does not realize he is doing this. Members demand that I reply to the charges.
In fact, Klunne even assures the membership that he WILL allow me to reply.
Then privately tells me he will not.
Later the membership is assured I WAS allowed to reply.
My apparent non-response is held up to them as proof of guilt. Hartvigsen and Klunne have been doing this for five years.

The following is pretty typical of how the Yahoo microhydro group site has been deliberately and consistently used to destroy our Watermotor project.
This particular Hartvigsen inspired tirade against me goes on until Nov. 7 th 09.

A little over a month after these massages were posted, (Dec. 23, 09) Hartvigsen met with a Patent Attorney, Brian Kunzler, in Salt Lake City. We hired Brian to receive the proof of turgo design ownership Hartvigsen had been telling the Yahoo microhydro group he had.
He was going to prove the old lady in Sweden he has being telling everyone he has collecting funds for really exists. And that he had an exclusive license to produce these turbine runners.

This is the proof of turgo design ownership was what he had been threatening to turn over to the U.S. Customs service since Dec.8, o6, in order to prevent my Watermotors from being imported into the U.S. This is what he what he had o show as proof for my clients he has told that my turbines are illegal.

Big Surprise.

Neither he nor Peter Ruyter had anything whatsoever to present to the lawyer to support their claims. They are simply con men acting with the help of Wim Klunne.
But they have gone right on making these claims, and Wim Klunne is going right on allowing them to do so on the Yahoo microhydro site.
See Below.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/microhydro/message/11719



hartvigsen, fraud, kunzler, ruyter, sweden, micro hydro, ceramatec, wim klunne, bolivia, turgo turbine, swedish patent office, joseph hartvigsen, wim klunne, yahoo microhydro group,

Peter Ruyter's Invitation to Sweden, Sept 4, 2010

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Visit to Sweden
Saturday, September 4, 2010 2:46 AM
From:
"Peter Ruyter"
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To:
"davis ron"
Ron,
we are back from the boatingtripp in arcipelagor now ,and I say as I says for years ago, over and over again, you are welcome to visit us and together we will visit Carlson and read our companybooks. That is same as I have told all funny guys you have leaded to me. At the nearest time I have to go to hospital for a minor recovery operation.o and k
This is direct from me to you.o and k

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