scamstopper
Friday, June 23, 2006
> > > Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:44:44 -0700 (PDT)
> > > From: davis ron
> > > Subject: letter to ruyter sept.1 05
> > > To: turbin@cargo-kraft.se
> > >
> > > Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:08:37 -0700 (PDT)
> > > From: "davis ron" View
> > > Contact
> > > Details
> > > Subject: peter ruyter
> > > To:
> > >
> > >
> > > Sept.1, 05
> > >
> > > Dear Peter,
> > >
> > > I have received yet another letter from a
> member of
> > > the micro-hydro group who has been led to
> believe
> > > that
> > > you and Hartvigsen have the legal right to
> collect
> > > “royalties” on the manufacture of the turgo
> spoon
> > > design that you and he are selling. While, as
> you
> > > saw,
> > > from his email, Hartvigsen, under pressure, has
> > > admitted that you have no such right, I think
> that
> > > it
> > > would be a good idea to make sure that everyone
> in
> > > the
> > > micro-hydro group is aware of this.
> > > True to his nature, while Hartvigsen is
> admitting
> > > that you hold no patent right for which to
> collect
> > > royalties, as you saw he now says that you have
> > > “design” rights for which royalties should be
> paid.
> > > I
> > > strongly suspect that this is another Hartvigsen
> > > charade.
> > >
> > > I remember that by your own accounts neither
> you
> > > nor
> > > Harvigsen had any part in the designing these
> turgo
> > > spoons, had ever seen a turbine with one of
> these
> > > turgo wheels running, or could even tell me
> where
> > > there was one working..
> > > So, one last time, if you have any legitimate
> > > claim
> > > to collect money from me for this turgo spoon
> > > design,
> > > tell me now.
> > >
> > > I want to point out that Hartvigsen never made
> any
> > > claim that there were proprietary rights
> (patent) on
> > > the spoons until AFTER I had designed and
> patented
> > > my
> > > Watermotor turbine which cost me a great deal of
> > > time
> > > and money. These “royalties” would have been the
> > > biggest single expense of building the turbine!
> > > Such
> > > is his honesty!
> > >
> > > Initially, Hartvigsen said the royalties he
> was
> > > demanding of me were to go to a poor Swedish
> widow.
> > > But neither of you were willing to provide
> proof of
> > > the existence of the widow you were claiming to
> be
> > > paying royalties to. Or provide a patent number
> on
> > > the
> > > spoons. While you have claimed to be in touch
> with
> > > this widow, you will not actually tell us where
> she
> > > is. You said that I would have to go to Sweden
> to
> > > meet
> > > her! Yes, Honest Peter!
> > >
> > > In order to enforce his fraudulent demands for
> > > “royalty” payments on the large turgo spoons
> which I
> > > was producing here in Bolivia, Hartvigsen
> actually
> > > refused to sell me any more of the smaller spoon
> for
> > > the my smaller Watermotor turbine, therefore
> > > preventing me from producing them.
> > > . I think that this is called extortion.
> > >
> > > As you saw from his email, Hartvigsen is now
> > > saying,
> > > without explanation that the money was not
> actually
> > > going to a poor widow in Sweden, but to YOU, and
> > > that
> > > you were the author of a secret deal made with
> > > him—apparently a secret agreement to
> fraudulently
> > > pretend that you had the right to collect
> royalties
> > > from me.
> > >
> > >
> > > I am asking once again for you to respond and
> > > discuss these matters as a responsible adult and
> a
> > > professional. I am sure that, like some others,
> > > including myself, you were convinced that
> Hartvigsen
> > > was an honorable responsible, and truthful
> > > individual.
> > > With strong religious convictions and a deep
> respect
> > > for his family. I give you permission to request
> any
> > > emails between us so that you may find to your
> own
> > > satisfaction how truthful he is. In exchange I
> > > request
> > > that you share any emails regarding this matter
> with
> > > me.
> > > Once again I urge you, for your own good, to
> put
> > > this matter to rest. Please do not make the
> mistake
> > > of
> > > thinking that you can simply ignore my messages
> and
> > > that this will somehow go away. I promise you
> it
> > > will
> > > not! This matter has cost me a great deal or
> time
> > > and
> > > money, and unless someone can show me where I
> have
> > > made some mistake on my side other than trusting
> > > individuals who do not deserve trust, I will
> > > continue
> > > pursue it—trust me on that!
> > > I am a reasonable person, and am giving you a
> > > chance
> > > to explain your part in this matter. If you
> refuse
> > > to
> > > do so I can only assume that you have no excuse
> to
> > > offer.
> > > Ron Davis
> > >
Mon, 5 Dec 2005 13:49:10 -0800 (PST)
From: "davis ron" View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Fwd: Re: Hartvigsen
To: kenhhall@earthlink.net
--- HYDRO wrote:
> From: "HYDRO"
> To: "davis ron"
> Subject: Re: Hartvigsen
> Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 18:32:59 -0500
>
> Ron;
>
> No, I have not sent a copy to Joe at all.
> Also, I see that you are planning to send my private
> message to a site, and
> that is NOT right, it is a private message to you
> and should stay as such --
> So, Please do not send it no anybody.
>
> It seems that you have a problem with JOE because he
> has requested royalties
> for the copies you are making of the Turgo Spoons he
> sold to you, it is your
> decision to pay or not pay royalties for the copying
> that seems you have
> done, if I read your message right.
>
> With what you wrote in your message, recognizing
> that you copied the spoons
> he sold to you. if you were in this country ( USA)
> he would be able to sue
> you and get a judge to penalized you for such
> copying.
>
> I do not want to be involved at all, with this
> situation, between you and
> Joe, it is your decision to continue or drop the
> issue.
>
> Is he demanding for a solution or it is you alone
> that is pursuing the issue
> ?.
>
> Regards
>
> Nando
Mon, 5 Dec 2005 13:50:35 -0800 (PST)
From: "davis ron" View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Fwd: Re: hartvigsen
To: kenhhall@earthlink.net
--- HYDRO wrote:
> From: "HYDRO"
> To: "davis ron"
> Subject: Re: hartvigsen
> Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 23:18:45 -0500
>
> Ron:
>
> I will be in Santa Cruz, Bolivia from the 15 of
> September until the 14 of
> October
>
> I was selling some mechanical tachometers and I
> offered Joe if He wanted
> one and He said yes and since He knew I have more of
> them, He asked if I
> could send one to you that He will pay for it, so I
> sent one to you in
> addition of one of my DVMs that I had extra.
>
> So He paid for the Tachometer, by the way that
> Tachometer when new, the
> cost were much more than U$350.00 each, so He give
> You a very good piece of
> equipment, also He asked me not to tell You that He
> paid for it,
>
> Remember I did not try to charge You any money for
> the items sent to You.
>
> No, Joe never have tried to use me, I respect him
> and He does the same to
> me.
>
> No, He has not told me about to sue him, this I told
> you, because I have
> done it to somebody that took a design from me
> without paying for it, it
> cost him 5 times what He should have paid if He
> behaved properly
>
> I would tell You my type of work and You may define
> and, as well, answer
> yourself the question you have asked me.
>
> I have done electronic and mechanical design
> engineering for many years;
> producing products that had many uses, from land,
> marine, air and space, and
> many of those products did not have a patent of any
> type and still the
> products, many times, were sold and because it had
> company proprietary work
> and designs when another company wanted to produce
> some of these products
> there were always payment for the acquired know how
> from my company that
> many times were in the millions, and remember no
> patents were involved,
> just "know how" that my company paid for it (
> employees working the project,
> the equipment bought to accomplish such project and
> all man hours that are
> paid to complete the project) SO I ASK you, put
> yourself in the opposite
> side, think that you have developed a piece of
> equipment that cost, let's
> say U$500,000 dollars to produced and you produce
> and sell some and then
> find out that somebody started to copy you, what
> would you do -- CAN YOU
> TELL ME !!.
>
> > By the way, did Hartvigsen ever tell you that his
> > siter, or sister-in-law, was a hard core junkie?
>
> Ron with this remark you have indicated that you
> are attacking him and
> hitting his back because you do not have grounds to
> stand in relation to the
> problem on hand.
> I never have known about his Sister, though he has
> talked to me many times
> about his family.
>
> CAN YOU tell me, have you sent ANY OF MY MESSAGE TO
> YOU to anyone or not ?>
> If so, to whom !!
>
> NOW think that you did not have a patent to cover
> your project, do still
> have rights to your design or NOT, can you reply to
> me on this ??
>
> The best for you
>
> Nando
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "davis ron"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 4:03 PM
> Subject: hartvigsen
>
>
> >
> >
> > Nando,
> >
> >
> > When did Hartvigsen tell you that he, or his
> buddy
> > in Sweden had a patent on the turgo spoons? How
> would
> > you feel if you found out that it was a lie? Would
> you
> > care that they were trying to rip me off? What if
> it
> > was you they were doing this to? How would you
> like
> > it?
> > Did he tell you that he could sue me in the U.S.?
> > Who's idea was it to send me the tachometer?
> > Hartvigsen said that he paid for it. Tell me what
> that
> > was all about. What was he up to? Do you think
> > thatperhaps he has been using you?
> > By the way, did Hartvigsen ever tell you that his
> > siter, or sister-in-law, was a hard core junkie?
> It
> > was one of the first things he told about his
> family.I
> > could never figure out why.
> > What do you think his motive was?
> >
RO wrote:
> From: "HYDRO"
> To: "davis ron"
> Subject: Re: $350.00 tachometer
> Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 19:13:06 -0500
>
> RON:
>
> Cool off, I never said that JOE paid U$350.00; I
> CLEARLY SAID : by the way
> that Tachometer when new, the cost were ( was -
> error here) much more than
> U$350.00 each.( SEE message dated : THURSDAY,
> SEPTEMBER 01, 2005 11:18 PM ).
> Joe paid a price that you, as well, knew because I
> offered to you at the
> same price that Joe was offered for and he paid it
> for me to send it to you
> and at the same time I sent my own DVM to you and
> even though I gave you a
> price, when the items arrived I said to forget it
> and that we will meet
> together one of these days for lunch and spend the
> money or something like
> that.
>
>
> I do not want that you continue attacking me without
> any reason, You are
> delirious, you are behaving like you have a
> persecution problem, I am not
> hunting you at all, check all my messages.
>
> Forget this situation that you are setting not for
> your benefit but for
> somebody else benefit, and it is not for me, I am
> not interested, stop
> looking for guilty consciences, better look into
> yourself and stop this
> nonsense, I am not your enemy, and the way you are
> behaving you are starting
> to show that you are the guilty one; drop the case
> -- I do not want to start
> asking questions --.
>
> The absurd price for the tachometer because I was
> not interested in making
> money, I had more than 1/2 dozen and all were sold
> at that ridiculous prices
> to people that were working MicroHydro, like you my
> way to give help to you
> and others, it seems that you have a VERY GUILTY
> CONSCIENCE, so stop looking
> for human bodies to blame for things that are not
> real.
>
> Either you change your message content completely as
> always before this
> problem or do not send any more messages to me --
> disgusting situation you
> are trying to embark me into.
>
> If you continue I will close my email to you.
>
> Regards
>
> Nando
>
>
>
>
Sat, 17 Dec 2005 16:45:10 -0000
From: "Wim Klunne" View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
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To: "davis ron"
Subject: Message not approved: swedish patent office re: Swedish turgo spoons Ruyter design rights?
Dear Ron,
The message I blocked from going to the whole group seemed to me like
meant for Joe only. I do understand now that that was a
misinterpretation.
As the microhydro group is configured in such a way that replies to
messages from the group go to all members, it often happens that
people hit the reply button while only intending to reply to the
sender and not to the whle group.
I thought that that was the case with your message and that was the
only reason I blocked the message. To avoid unneccessary traffic in
the group and to avoid situations were private messages go to all
members. Me blocking the message has nothing to do with the content
of the conversation and whether I agree or disagree with you, Peter
or Joe.
I hope this makes the situation clear and shows that there was no bad
intention at all by blocking you message. Your message was just one
of the many messages I do block from going to the group, because they
are SPAM, promotional messages, virusses or, as in your case, in my
view not meant for the whole group. It was certainly not a situation
of refusing your message but rather preventing your message to go to
all at the group.
I am most willing to let the message underneath go to the group as
well, but would prefer you to remove the section on me refusing to
let your message through.
Kind regards,
Wim
>
> Dear Group,
>
> This morning Wim refused to post a message from me
> asking for comments from Peter Ruyter regarding
> Hartvigsens statement that he has a right to collect
> payment for the use of the turgo spoon design in
> question. Since Hartvigsen claims to be collecting
> money on his behalf, I think that this is appropriate.
>
>
> I have written to Peter Ruyter a number of times
> asking him to clarify Hartvigsens claims that he
> (Ruyter) has the right to collect "royalties" on the
> turgo design I build here in Bolivia.
> I have also asked to see the agreement Hartvigsen
> claims to have with him to collect money from me even
> without patent rights.
>
> I think that as a waterpower professional working
> for Cargo and Kraft and as a member of this group that
> Ruyter has an obligation to address this issue brought
> up by Hartvigsen. I is not acceptable that he simply
> ignore this issue while Hartvigsen continues to assert
> that I owe him money.
> I recently received a message from a prominent
> member of the microhydro group claiming that
> Hartvigsen could sue me for patent violation. I will
> provide this on request.
> As to the "design rights" that Hartvigsen claims
> that Ruyter owns on these turgo spoons, I could find
> none listed with the Swedish patent office. Beside, as
> you can see from the patent office statement, "design
> rights" refer to appearence only. Like color.
> As so far as Hartvigsens claim that I am trying to
> discredit him: patent rights and design rights are by
> nature public information. If someone is demanding
> "royalties" that they are not entititled to
> (especially someone who knows what the term royalties
> legally means), are they not discrediting themselves?
> We need to hear from Peter Ruyter and his company
> Cargo and Kraft.
>
>
> FROM:
>
> Swedish patent office
> Industrial Design
> Design refers to the appearance of a product. When
> we talk about design protection, we are talking only
> about protection of the form or appearance. Patent
> protection is required for the underlying technical
> idea or function.
>
>
Tue, 20 Dec 2005 09:08:17 -0800 (PST)
From: "davis ron" View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Fwd: Re: Turgo design from Sweden
To: wim@microhydropower.net
Dec. 20, 05
Dear Wim,
I asked Ruyter if he wanted his message below posted
to the group. It is in derect reply to my question on
the group site regarding the right Hartvigsen claims
he has to collect money on his behalf to produce the
turgo design we use here in Bolivia.
He has not answered. I have been waiting to hear from
them before answering what Hartvigsen wrote in detail.
I see that Hartvigsen has simply decided to ignore
the issue he has placed before the group. He was asked
to provide the number of Ruyter's "design rights" he
claims to be protecting.
He is now writing about alternators.
I think that this is a bit insulting to the group.
One thing is true, this has been going on for years.
Hartvigsen tells people I am ripping off the turgo
design and cheating Ruyter. I have written to Ruyter
many times to ask if I owe him money as Hartvigsen
says, and for what exactly.
These messages he ignores and they both go right on
telling people I am a crook for not paying them off.
I think demanding money fraudulently for non-existent
patent or design rights is against the law in all
countries. Maybe on the Internet too. No?
As you see in his message about me to the group
Hatvigsen is STILL claiming that he has the right to
collect money for this design on Ruyter's behalf.
He is clearly trying to deceive the entire group if no
such rights exist.
As you can see in Ruyter's letter, he is very sorry
for himself and angry. They say that I have attempted
to turn everyone in the group against by asking for
proof for the "design rights" they tell everyone they
own.
I think that asking to see proof of what they claim
is true could only shame them if they are shown to be
crooks.
This is very childlike.
Like children they have no concern or regret for the
years of trouble they have caused us or cost our
businees.
Just anger that their plan has failed and exposed
them.
We consider what Ruyter has written in this last
message a threat, which perhaps all the group members
should be aware of.
Maybe you shoud ask the Yahoo authorities who manage
your group about how we should respond? I know that
both Hartvigsen and Ruyter would do any harm to us
they thought they could get awy with.
All the best,
Ron Davis
P.S. Much of what Hartvigsen says to justify hismself
in his message to the group is simply untrue--such as
I was making direct plastic or metal copies of the
spoons with a rubber mold.
All my spoons are a different size from the ones he
sells, and are bronze or aluminium cast in sand.
Of course, since as we now know, they have no actual
rights at all to the design, what differance would it
make what I was doing?
Hartvigsen first began to talk about "royalties"
AFTER I had designed the Watermotor to use the spoons
Ruyter was selling and AFTER I had started the
two-year-long patent process for the power control
system I invented. (By the way, that was the first
patent issued in Bolivia for a machine invention in 6
years.)
I would be willing to present a U.S. embassy
notorized sworn copy of all in order to examine this
matter.
Here is Ruyter's last letter message:
--- Peter Ruyter wrote:
> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 10:13:13 +0100
> To: davis ron
> From: Peter Ruyter
> Subject: Re: Plasticspoons
> CC: Joseph Hartvigsen
>
> Mr Davis!
> Nobody have ever talked about any form of patent,
> exept you.
> Joe have only asked for some very small, very very
> small, sum as
> ticket for dublicate our spoons. With one
> originalspoon as a master.
> You are free to set a name of that payment.
> You have dublicated spoons with our spoons as
> master. You have also
> tryed to sell them fitted as a runner in your
> "machine".
>
> You have now for years talked yourself out of any
> sense. You have
> showed the whole world your way of thinking, and
> that are not a good
> way. Everybody understand its danger to have any
> form of bussines
> with you. I can understand if you dont have any good
> result at your
> "machine-production".
>
> I think, even if I give you original spoons and
> original tools to
> calcylate, you will not be able to sell any products
> from your hands,
> beqaus you showed the whole group, you are not a
> trusty person.
> Betwinn you and me, that is not a good situation. I
> will say, its a
> catasrophe situation for you.
> If you want to communicate any moore in this matter,
> I will only
> answer posted letters and answer by posted letters.
> --
>
> Peter Ruyter
> (owner&responsible)
> Cargo & Kraft Turbin Sverige AB
> SE-739 92 SKINNSKATTEBERG
> SWEDEN
jjh@ceramatec.com, watermotor@yahoo.com, turbin@cargo-kraft.se
CC: "microhydro eGroup"
From: "Wim Jonker Klunne" Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoogroups.com. Learn more
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 19:32:46 +0100
Subject: [microhydro] discussion regarding use and design of spoons
Dear Mr Davis, Hartvigsen and Ruyter,,
For a period emails have been going around via the group regarding the
design of turgo spoons. The microhydro group is an open forum in which
issues related to microhydro can be discussed in a open and frank
matter. If the group helps in solving your apparent dispute, I am most
willing to provide you the forum for that. Up till now I have let
messages regarding this subject going through to the whole group as I
thought it of interest to everyone subscribed. However, I am afraid we
have now reached a stage where the added value to the group members has
faded.
Herewith I do ask you to settle the issue outside the forum and only
come back to us on this issue when a final agreement has been reached.
From now on I will block messages regarding this topic.
Please note that this action of mine doesn't constitute any support for
either side of this dispute and is only meant to keep the forum alive
and interesting to all members.
Please note that I copied the group in this message for sake of
transparency.
Please note that your current and past contributions to the group are
highly appreciated and I therefore urge you to keep on contributing to
the group on other issues than the subject of this message.
Kind regards,
Wim Jonker Klunne
microhydro group moderator
Mon, 20 Feb 2006 21:43:55 +0100
From: "Wim Jonker Klunne" Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
To: "davis ron"
Subject: Re: ruyter, hartvigsen--my response to defamatory information-fraudulent claims
Dear Ron,
Thank you for your message.
As a moderator and web master of an information site I want to stay out of any potential difficult situation.
I have not studied your case in detail and therefore I am not able to give you any advise.
If I have information on my web site that is not correct, please inform me and I will obviously either correct it or remove it.
Kind regards,
Wim
davis ron wrote:
Feb. 20, 06
Wim,
I would like to reply to erroneous and defamatory
information that you published about me on your
microhydro website. Would you have any reasonable
objection to my doing so?
Ron Davis
Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:52:31 -0800 (PST)
From: "davis ron" View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Hartvigsen Ruyter
To: wim.klunne@microhydropower.net.
Feb. 17, 06
Dear Wim,
I have written to you a number of times without
receiving a reply. Why is that? I suppose it has to do
with something Hartvigsen told you. Well, we all know
how truthful he is now.
Now that you know that Ruyter and Hartvigsen do not
have the design rights according to law as they
claimed on your microhydro site, what do you propose
to do about it? I would imagine that you would be
very interested in preventing unscrupulous individuals
from taking advantage of your site.
Ron
22 Feb 2006 18:40:49 +0100
From: "Wim Jonker Klunne" Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
To: "davis ron"
Subject: Re: Hartvigsen-nuclear energy
···
Wim Jonker Klunne
sustainable energy and climate change expert
···
wim@microhydropower.net
http://renewables4africa.net/klunne
···
No, thank you for pointing this out.
Wim
davis ron wrote:
Feb. 22, 06
Dear Wim,
Are you aware of this?
Ron
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6614370/from/RL.2/
Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:44:46 -0800 (PST)
From: "davis ron" View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Fwd: Swedish turgo design
To: wim.klunne@microhydropower.net
--- davis ron wrote:
> Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 13:38:08 -0800 (PST)
> From: davis ron
> Subject: Swedish turgo design
> To: moderator@renewables4africa.net
>
> Mar. 3, 06
>
> Hello Wim,
>
> Has Hartvigsen been able to provide any type
> of
> proof to you of his right to collect royalties on
> the
> turgo spoons I produce here in Bolivia, as he has
> repeatedly claimed on your microhydro site? Have you
> asked him for any proof?
>
> Ron Davis
>
Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:03:02 -0800 (PST)
From: "davis ron" View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Fwd: regarding Peter Ruyter and his U.S. partner Hartvigsen
To: wim.klunne@microhydropower.net
--- davis ron wrote:
> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:29:59 -0800 (PST)
> From: davis ron
> Subject: regarding Peter Ruyter and his U.S. partner
> Hartvigsen
> To: turbin@cargo-kraft.se
>
> Dec. 16, 05
>
> Hello Cargo and Kraft,
>
> A hydropower business partner of Peter Ruyter
> in
> the U.S., Joseph Hartvigsen, has been telling
> various
> individuals for several years that I owe him money
> (or
> royalties) for producing turgo runners here in
> Bolivia
> for my Watermotor turbine. (watermotor.net)
> I have written to Ruyter a number of times regarding
> this and he simply refuses to reply. I told him that
> I
> would write to the authorities about this if he
> continued to allow Hartvigsen to make false
> statements
> about me.
> Hartvigsen claims to have been authorized by
> Ruyter
> to collect money from me and says that he has a
> document to this effect, but now refuses to show it
> to
> me.
> How can one legally demand royalty money without a
> patent? Isnt that against the law in Sweden? It
> certainly is here.
>
> A member of the microhydro group recently wrote
> and
> told me that Hartvigsen can take me to court I do
> not
> pay the money he is demanding for Ruyter.
>
> Ruyter has not had anything to say for himself. I
> think that if he were innocent he would say so.
>
> I see that you allow Hartvigsen to advertise on
> your
> website.
>
>
>
> I am quite willing to present a U.S. embassy a
> notorized copy of my entire email correspondance
> regarding the turgo spoons with Ruyter and
> Hartvigsen
> to the appropriate Swedish authorities.
>
> Another member of this group to which Ruyter and
> Hartvigsen belong recently asked if they had the
> right to collect royalties on the turgo spoons. Let
> me
> show you what Hartvigsen replied. Now after several
> years Hartvigsen admits that there is no patent, but
> now speaks of Ruyters "design rights". I looked at
> the
> Swedish patent office site and "design rights" only
> apply to appearance.
>
>
posted by scamstopper at 8:43 AM
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