to the list of counterfeit items that customs agents are looking for".Dec. 8, 2006
Re: Bob in D.C. re: hartvigsen's sole objection to my message of Dec. 5, 06, Joe's claims to Honesty
Friday, December 8, 2006 6:28 PM
From:
"Joseph Hartvigsen"
View contact details
To:
"davis ron"
Cc:
"Peter Ruyter"
Ron,
In my previous reply, I most certainly did not agree that your message
was accurate, to the contrary I stated "I have repeatedly responded to
your errors and inaccurate statements and you don't address the
issues." That can hardly be construed as agreement to a message so full
of falsehood that it is pointless to list them all.
However, your claim in this message that I should pay you for your
illegal and blatant knock-off copies of the Swedish design is the most
brazen distortion of truth and common sense that you've imagined yet.
> By your standards of intellectual property rights,
> you should probably be paying me to copy my cast metal
> turgo runners.
Item number 2 on your own web site:
http://www.watermotor.net/indexflash.htm
acknowledges that these are a recent Swedish design
"2. Modern efficient Swedish designed Turgo runners in
bronze or nylon, converts waterpower into mechanical power
at 80-85% efficiency."
I have repeatedly referred you to the section of US copyright (which by
treaty is consistent with other civilized nation) explaining why your
copies are illegal and un-authorized. I have likewise directed you to
the lawful owner of that right (Ingela Carlsson, then later Peter
Ruyter) in Sweden.
I remind you that you had seen these photos of a 16 spoon turgo runner
that I built, before you built "my cast metal turgo runners".
http://www.microhydropower.net/mhp_group/hartvig/2.php
So, you have not only copied the spoon, but my earlier construction of
the 16 spoon runner (the spoons are sized for 24 spoon runners). I have
not prohibited this as the templates have been on my web site.
I have numerous photos (a selection of which are attached) of the 150mm
16 "orangespoon" runners that you have made without authorization from
the copyright owner (not me). You have repeatedly been asked to cease
and desist.
Whether the spoons were made by sand casting or rubber mold is
irrelevant. Either requires an impression made from a copyright
article, which you purchase from Sweden by way of me. Furthermore, your
10/25/2001 disclosure of your rubber like molding compound stated (last
line before your signature line) "It can also be used to make strong
yet flexible molds for wax casting". The first photos of your copied
spoon runners are dated August of 2001.
The money for your copies was never for me. If you are worried that the
money would go to me or Peter, mail your payment to Peter in Ingela's
name and I'm sure he will be happy to send it on to her.
Imported goods that violate international copyright law can be seized
in customs. Maybe it is time to request that the watermotor to be added
to the list of counterfeit items that customs agents are looking for. I
don't think that we'll have any trouble finding agreement from the
authorities that the runners in the attached photos are copies of the
orange Swedish design turgo.
Joe
--- davis ron
> Dec. 8, 06
>
> Joe,
>
> Thank you for your comments on my Dec. 5, 06
> message. As your saw, I presented my message to you
> and your lawyer before sending it out because I wanted
> to make sure that it was accurate, so there is no
> question of any "outrageous provocation", as you put
> it.
> I don't remember you specifying which turgo model
> you publicly claimed I was using wax and rubber to
> make illicit copies of. Since your claims to the right
> to collect money from me have no basis outside your
> imagination I cannot see how it makes any differance.
> It is simply grasping at straws.
> What I should have written is that I have never used
> a rubber mold or wax replica to produce turgo spoons
> of any kind, nor have I ever "admitted" doing so. Have
> you ever seen one of these, or can tell me anyone who
> has? You have publicly repeated this false claim
> several times, as has Ruyter, so it must be important
> for your fraudulent assertions.
>
> In assummed that you were speaking of the small blue
> spoons because those are the ones you refused to sell
> me unless I submitted to your extortionist and
> fraudulent attempts to obtain money with your false
> and long term public claims to having the right to
> collect royalties from me on behalf of an old lady in
> Sweden, whose existence neither you nor your "partner"
> Peter Ruyter can ever prove actually exists.
> Peter Ruyter will not verify your other claims--that
> he owns any sort of intellectual property rights or
> that he gave you the right to collect money from me on
> his behalf.
> Actually, as I have mentioned many times, I use
> ordinary sand casting to produce my model 150 turgo
> wheels.
> By your standards of intellectual property rights,
> you should probably be paying me to copy my cast metal
> turgo runners.
> In any case, you and your lawyer have had plenty of
> time to examine what I have sent to you and assume
> that was the only statement you took exception to.
> I assume that you bring that up because you continue
> to claim that I am illicitly producing turgo runners
> for my Watermotors and am cheating an old lady in
> Sweden, who's intellectual property rights you say you
> are protecting.
> Why don't you see if Klunne will allow you to repeat
> your claims and accusations about me on the microhydro
> e-group website?
> Ron
>
>
>
> Hi Ron,
> Thank you for the thoughts on honesty. Twice a year
> the Church has a
> worldwide general conference, the most recent being
> this weekend. I
> spent 10 hours (6 on Sat, 4 on Sun) listening or
> watching the
> proceedings. There was an excellent talk on the
> subject of honesty and
> integrity yesterday morning. You can download the
> audio or video from
> the link below.
>
>
http://www.lds.org/conference/sessions/display/0,5239,49-1-646,00.html
> -> Sunday Morning Session -> Bishop Richard C. Edgley
>
> Here is a summary from the Desert Morning News web
> site.
>
> One way to stand apart from a world that has become
> increasingly
> dishonest is by living principles of honesty and
> integrity, said Bishop
> Richard C. Edgley, first counselor in the church's
> Presiding Bishopric.
>
> "Honesty should be among the most fundamental
> values that govern
> our everyday living," he said. "When we are true to
> the sacred
> principles of honesty and integrity, we are true to
> our faith and we
> are true to ourselves.
>
> Obviously you sent this not for my spiritual
> education, as I am well
> aquainted with this principal of the gospel, but
> because you think I am
> a lying cheat. I feel quite badly that you think this
> of me in spite of
> my continued efforts to explain the facts surrounding
> the issues of why
> Ceramatec suggested adding co-invetors to a joint
> patent on FiberSil,
> and why I believe that it is not only legal but
> rightful to request
> payment for turgospoon copies on behalf of the owner
> of the design.
>
> Ceramatec now has a full time in house patent
> attorney. He is a hard
> working, experienced, ethical and fair person. I have
> briefly discussed
> both topics with him. The definition of co-inventors
> (co-inventors does
> not mean the idea came at the same time, rather that
> the collection of
> ideas presented in the patent came from the
> co-inventors) and the need
> to list them in a patent was confirmed, as was a more
> detailed
> explanation confirming the applicability of copyright
> laws to physical
> articles, without the need to file (as you can read on
> www.copyright.gov ).
>
> If there is anything I can do to help work out this
> disagreement with
> you, I would like to do so.
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Joseph Hartvigsen
>
> > Ron,
> > I have repeatedly responded to your errors and
> > inaccurate statements
> > and you don't address the issues. You have yet to
> > try me and send me an order (with 3 USD/spoon plus
> > postage ) for the bluespoons and see if you get
> > them.
> >
> > Your comment below that we accuse you of copying
> > bluespoons with a rubber mold is an outrageous
> > provocation! It is the obviously the orange spoons
> > that you have copied, the photo with the VW bus
> > notwithstanding. You know it, and anyone who looks
> > at the spoons and your copies knows it. I have
> > plenty of pictures and the data from your web site
> > to prove it.
> >
> > Just tell me two things since you won't accept our
> > assertion on this topic.
> >
> > Who do you think designed the spoons and what
> > happened to his rights to his design?
> >
> > How did you get the rights to copy them?
> >
> >
> > Joe
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > davis ron
> > Joe, as always I invite you and Bob Rees to check
> > this for errors or inaccurate statements. Please
> > respond asap as there is much more.
> >
> >
> > For nearly six years Joseph Hartvigsen of Salt
> > Lake
> > City, Utah, has been publicly claiming that I am
> > illicitly producing my Watermotor turbines here in
> > Bolivia.
> > He originally claimed that the runner (small
> > waterwheel) design we use is the intellectual
> > property
> > of a poor widow in Sweden, and that he
> > (Hartvigsen) had been granted the right to collect
> > $32
> > for each turbine we produce here in Bolivia, on her
> > behalf.
> > He twice repeated this claim to the 2000 plus
> > worldwide members of the Yahoo Micro-hydro power
> > e-group on Dec. 12, and Dec. 20, 05.
> > Contrary to what he implies in this posting,
> > Hartvigsen began making this claim to collect
> > royalties shortly after I announced to the
> > microhydro
> > group that I had finished testing and begun
> > patenting
> > the Watermotor (group archive Jan. 2001) not the
> > runner, but the power control device I had invented
> > which uniquely allows the Watermotor to be used to
> > directly drive machines.He said that the money was
> > to
> > be used to pay for one of Peter Ruyter's turbines in
>
=== message truncated ===
Joseph Hartvigsen
Hartvigsen-Hydro
1529 South 400 East
Kaysville, UT 84037 USA
Micro Hydro components, turgo runners
http://h-hydro.com
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